Debunking suicide

 Suicide is not to be romanticized as a practical device of someone else's reckoning in that they commit to self-murder. Allow me to descibe this as follows...

What I can acquire myself, in saying this about suicide... is that innately speaking... I am too much of a coward to do so.

In conclusion: my personal belief? Is that someone who commits to suicide has resorted their last line of defense to end something beautiful. It is one of the most honorably repsected acts of one's purpose. IF WE USE SOCRATES AS AN EXAMPLE??

(The resolve it takes to commit suicide.) It must be done of sound mind if for no other reason, you have been given a certain death sentence by illness or disease.

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Interlocutor¹

and what about incurable depression?

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My rebuttal 

Not sure what that should entail, because I am not in a position to know what suicide prevention looks like for a true professional. But because I take my talent at philosophy very seriously... the power of my imagination comes to aid. To answer your question: depression is not incurable. It would be unreasonable of me to assume so. Tradtionalists that play a role in psychology would only suggest that the role of clinically depressed patients, should be rehabilitation as an end. That means the result driven focus will entail well being as a practical operation for people with depression. 

Motivational factors include: 

¹medication, ²education or ³what is better known as ⁴cost benefit (self-help tools), ⁵spirituality such as no better part of a ⁶religion (think: connectedness relationship to god), ⁷socially invested goal oriented behavior using "talk-therapy" (coping) as a helpful model... that follows, ⁸psychoanalysis for guidance throughout your journey into being in touch without thinking reality is all negative? (All of that can be outlining a depressed person's awareness of everything that happens without depriving them access to the same freedom everbody else has in life.) To prevent relapse which is the final stage of ultimately getting better. 

My point is: when you find yourself with depression, you can regulate yourself, and using coping mechanisms without resorting to patterns of behavior that you feel stuck in. When you find yourself overcoming life's obstacles (or what I called "relapse") with time you feel relapses becoming more and more normalized. When this happens, you are moving forward.

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Interlocutor²

Bravery and selfishness are not mutually exclusive. 

Many people feel relief after they decide to commit suicide, and the people around them are surprised once they do, thinking that they had seemed so positive recently. 

I think it takes more courage to live with pain than to end the possibility of more pain. 

If suicide is brave, then considering suicide would have been scary, otherwise what need is the courage

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 how does that resolve preclude selfishness? 

I did not suggest the dead feel relief. The relief comes when the living person sees an end to their pain.

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My rebuttal:

 I don't know... it just seems like a problematic statement. If you obviously suggest that person 'x' commited suicide for the same reason they feel relief even prior to suicide. How do they know? How can they possibly know suicide is the answer to find relief EVEN IF they are personally accounting for the suicide to bring them that relief. It seems like an improbability to me. Which if you read my query correctly... leaves room for human error (on the person commiting the act.) I can't make it any clearer. Your statement is not only ambiguous but vague in its complexity. The only room you have for argument taking place, is that the actor is at peace with their decision. Therefore, the action of suicide IS the relief. Even if the actors relief can be implicitly implied - makes for shaky argument with cracks in it, perhaps. Perhaps - I am completely off base here... but unless I am called out for totally being in the wrong, I graciously accept that fate.

To your ²nd point:

How does resolve NOT preclude selfishness. What I mean by adding the adverb 'NOT' is how to infer the meaning behind a suicide. My example is: using my cowardice as an example to make that point. My point being the suicidal psychological impact a person must have to completely abandon all self-doubt NOT commiting suicide takes RESOLVE. A type of resolve I would never doubt. I am not condoning suicide for your information. I feel that renouncing suicide, in an apriori metaphorical role a suicide has in that person's life... takes on a type of resolve unknown to most of us. It's a resolve not just anyone possesses.

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Interlocutor³

some are seriously mentally ill; no bravery there.  no bravery when you leave a family that needs you.  perhaps brave when one is so unhappy with life that death is better ... but i don't see 'bravery' as an aspect of suicide.  why would it be brave?  selfish, well, i suppose.  but that is really meaningless as it their body and life, not yours.   and rational selfishness is a virtue.

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My rebuttal:

rational selfishness is not a virtue. It is a contrivance.

 rational selfishness cannot be clear or sound rationale if you are improvising your morals out of convenience to get what you want in life.

 here is my grievance with your take, Steve. If we practice or participate in supporting the courage it takes to perform suicide. Then what is a life living without rational selfishness. My answer to you is this: that if I am a rationally selfish individual. Is comitting myself to performing suicide a rational choice. And seeing if my choice is rational. How do I know.