characterizing virtue

The sweetheart part of the deal for the private owners is that they are guaranteed these subsidies for 25 years whether they need them or not.

So, before the first dollar of rent is collected for any event, a minimum of $3.7 million in income every year for 25 years, comes from the province and city.

Remember that $60 million mortgage? It is, not coincidentally, amortized over 25 years. A garden variety mortgage with blended payments including interest at six per cent per annum over that period of time would need about $4.6 million per year to fully service.

This is what constructive joe-taxpayer has been rewarded. True North and its subsidiary investors are reaping the profit margins, for an arena that is essentially being paid for BUT NOT OWNED by the public sector. In truth, True North is being BOUGHT A BUILDING FROM WINNIPEG PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. . . for FREE!!! In fact, Winnipeggers MUST ENJOY hiding in their fox-holes so much that it makes True North look a lot better getting filthy rich.

If this above paragraph eludes the average citizen of this city, you will begin to understand how Eaton's did not have to be demolished.

Sadly this is all just academic.

Everything, Eaton's itself, having stood up until past 2000a.d. deserved a better fate, but not ONE civil servant risked breeching something so totally unavoidable? It is absolutely mind boggling how a country such as ours just let this happen the way it has.

This is divisive of Sam Katz extrodinary cowardice on the same type of issue.

The fact(s)

1- Eaton's = destroyed
2- Canada has no sense of soveriegty that it allows it's tax-payers to have our eyes gouged out (follows. . .)
3- True North inexplicably (as the Bombers sorry excuse for a football team) have a building built for them FOR FREE - (follows)
4- Mark Chipman's associates keep 100% of the profits.

The True North project cost taxpayers $40.5 million up-front and taxpayers are committed to subsidies and tax concessions of about $5 million a year for 25 years, or another $125 million over time.

The private owners put $18 million and made no commitment to make further investments if the project should turn sour, but they get all of the profit.

Unbelievable to me is that not 1 Winnipegger I know, even cares that the profit Mark Chipman is making off of this can feed our children and our childrens children all because of the the MTS Centre built for True North.
And nobody cares.

Unbelievable, even as I write this. The Eaton's building was a waste.

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footballmad
Post subject: RE: pertaining to incompetent leaders Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 10:06 PM




Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 911
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
iunno what exactly your talking about big. I agree with the article and the fact that the mts centre was funded largely by the public sector and had next to no information on its actual funding. and agree that the same thing for the football stadium but asper has been alot more open abot it and has shown much more willingness to spend his own money to do so and has gaurenteed to pay back the public fundings within 5 years.

all i am saying about UPAs post is that at the time aspers proposal was choosen, mulitple proposals were made and were looked at. he states ledehoski doesnt want to own our team. i was making my point at that statment by him.
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in my opinion the mts centre is by and large the worst issue of incomptence i can equate, notwithstanding the article as it stands on its own merit. That being said, as a canadian born and raised in winnipeg, my own opinion has little edge, seeing I am biased (admittedly) to saving the now raped/pillaged eaton's building done by none other than Mark Chipman, Glen Murray, and Gary Doer.

The article only provides just how "risk free" the government can milk it's consumer as a tax-paying entity? What that question concerns me as a citizen is the government of manitoba, will on account of provincial litigation treat it's citizen as part of an ENTERPRISE WHICH WE ARE NOT. In fact, Mark Chipman (as it stated in the article. . . ) is a piece of the monopoly which goes something like, "I am a citizen for the tax-payer in this community, who will wager all the money invested into this (True North Corp.)and do solemnly swear to honor all prevailing monetary costs allocated into my PRIVATE BUSINESS - LOL -!!!) In the larger scheme of things Mark Chipman acted as the alibi in terms of a government loop hole - (an enterprise) - made up of frailty (i.e. joe-taxpayer.)" This is based on the condition I propose that the government of manitoba singlehandedly maneuvered without any recourse of action to legitimately inform the public of it's wrong-doing.

^This is the crux of the article, which based on formality, is telling us that the wool was being pulled over our eyes without it being questioned. Not only were we played for as tax-paying entities; but the average citizen were left blinded by the government. This is to say: the government knowlingly deceived it's main investor (the public monetary interest) into an illigitimate partnership through True North as if it is legally binding enough to withstand the peril of public opinions resolve.

Cont.

Also, it is in my opinion the government of Canada (YES. . . CANADA) failed not only the citizens of winnipeg but in large part the legal aspect of demolishing of the former Eaton's building. . . is without a doubt a crime that has gone unforseen due to the incredible loss of such an important piece of history. The reason being, that in an age such as this, Canada is less than a 200 year old nation, yet, to let Eatons go unpreserved, unprenounced and unwanted speaks volumes for the lack of vision or intiative. It was a shame to watch it happen and feel powerless because of it.

Any winnipegger or Canadian across the nation should be ashamed not knowing how significant a crime this was. People are completely clueless as to those that say, "It was necessary for downtown." Completely and utterly ignorant to standards that accompany it.

thank you,

bigc.

P.S. If this article doesn't make sense to you, or the impertinence of Mark Chipman, Glen Murray and True North. . . think again. Sam Katz wants to make his name something to be remembered, yet he flip flops on a stadium for point douglas.

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footballmad
Post subject: RE: pertaining to incompetent leaders Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 12:50 PM




Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 911
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
all is well big. And just a point on Katz with point douglasw an stadium design. he is ina tight spot really. with him and apser running can-west as direct buisness partners. aspers is expecting him to be on his side, while katz has to be reliable for bettering the city. and although i personally think the design is a fantastic idea i also have limited knowledge of all aspects.

but i agree the sam katz flip flops decisions has to me he runs the city more like a buisness then a city.

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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/westview/story/4198276p-4789875c.html

^This article should be taken very seriously. It is a code of ethics, that many ignorant to it have no idea of.

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bigcanadiano
Post subject: RE: Blame it on the coaches Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 01:52 AM




Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 186

Status: Online!
This is actually a decent post by '99'. But spidey, let's lay off the incest remarks, huh?

Anyhow, I was going to make another topic post, but this one is clearly intelligent enough to subscribe to it, eh.

Tonight on Doug Brown's show, I wanted to call in, but I repressed the urge. The truth is there is no urge.

The positives:

When the best players on our team are Ryan Dinwiddie and Derrick Armstrong, those are the postives.

The negatives:

. . . However, Doug and Wheeler made a feeble attempt to give fans a "let's feel sorry for ourselves" which is a good diversion for those types that are in remorse.

Spidey brings up key elements to the unravelling this season of a Stephen King novel. The novelty "We got it goin' on" is wearing thin on Bauer or Taman. This brings us to unquestionably the coaching.

Who is to blame? . . .you decipher the rest.

Here is my endorsement:

Berry = player's coach. He has mimicked Don Matthew's to a tee. Problem is we are not Mtl We do not have A. Calvillo. We have Kevin Glenn. To make a long story short; we have players that love Berry's strategy, but have to be resiliant with what's given to them. That's what a players coach does. At this level of play, the players are responsible for what needs to be done on the field.

All Players = they're playing for last year. Berry instills what he thought was critical for success. Unlike Matthew's, Berry thought he could count on the players to play at a high level without resorting to dirty tactics Matthew's is infamous of. We know Matthew's common knowledge was to win at any cost, put player's competing against each other, endorsed decpetive kinds of tactics preparing for the opposition which meant attempting to injure (i.e. Milt Stegall / D. Sanchez) . . . Bringing in players from other teams practice rosters for strategy purposes. . . doing fake punts on no grounds necessary for it, like running up the score etc. Berry does not do this whatsoever with his players, and respects their intelligence. (This follows. . . )

Troy Westwood: some people are using this as a cop out card against berry. This is simply untrue. Berry's philosophy proves one thing: never put yourself ahead of the team. Troy Westwood was a cancer at this. No matter what any one says that is the truth. Same goes for Keith Stokes. A guy who holds a babies rattle just so he can be the focus (as Stokes was) is not Bomber football.

In conclusion: I blame not berry but the players. This is not about blaming the victim, which in all fairness to berry would be just that. He's done everything he's taken from his experience in Montreal, and the Bombers have one thing to do, which is, be resiliant. Mtl, Ham, or Tor are easily beatable teams. Ham is not a darkhorse by any stretch. I still say they are over-achieving, and MTL will fizzle to smash mouth football. Tor is a joke in waiting. The season is not over for the Bombers, but every indication says otherwise. I thought Edm. would be the worst team in the CFL this year, but the Bomber's can really do the Eskimos proud.

The sad truth is it is the players that are at fault and not berry. He wanted Glenn to call his own plays, by this time in "the program" I'll bet you my ridiculous wager of $01. that Glenn hasn't even stepped up to the plate yet, while Gumby flies down on a parachute @ Canada Inns with Bob the Snob Irving announcing 'WE'RE BEING ATTACKED' over. . . and over. . . Next thing you know, Gumby's shifty moves breaks every Bomber tackler for a td return.

Berry thinking, "SIGN HIM UP."

bigcanadiano
Post subject: RE: Blame it on the coaches Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 02:10 AM




Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 186

Status: Online!
BTW - the term 'suicide football' is a great analogy. The Bombers are really making a name of it and should feel privileged to coin it. Truly unbelievable start this season.




footballmad
Post subject: RE: Blame it on the coaches Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 01:03 PM




Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 911
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
big you make great points. to me there are aspects of the game that coaching is at full blame though. we always make the same little msitakes game in and game out that hurt us. but other then those i fully agree. the players have a lack of heart and effort. they don't show the same will or passion to play or win games and it obviously is killing this team.

Me i like our OC Kit cartwright a little better then our previous guy, but in the past few seasons i began calling him the drive killer. make a few great plays march down field and then call a 2nd down play that is doomed from the snap count. and now this year for some reason we instigated the roll out. to me i hate this idea, and our team is not set up for it. a roll out is made for a fast QB and a sloppy oline lets look at vick and the flacons for that, he could roll out and had the speed to get in a throwing position or take off. our team has a strong offensive line and a pretty immobile qb in Glenn, he does not have the speed t get outside and set up a pass or take off. to me all the roll out does is take away half of glenns options.

which leads down to play calling altogether. it has been bad, REAL bad. even if we don't give roberts the ball we have to leave him in the back field for the snap count. when we drop roberts out the db's back off and gain the upper hand on our recievers. if Glenn is calling the plays i say we go back to the drive killer to do it, and if the drive killer is calling them then i say we give glenn the chance.

really at this rate thier s no harm, the team is 0-3 and sinking faster each game. anythign new could bring a different aspect to the game that could infact start winning us football games.

_________________
Rider Pride Better Hide! Bomber Blue Coming Through!
On Game Day We All Play!

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bigcanadiano
Post subject: RE: Blame it on the coaches Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 01:26 PM




Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 186

Status: Online!
You think my points were fair? That's falttering to me, because after reading the points you made (which I also agree with) it tells me what a disaster this season is thus far. That's not an insult, it's the truth of it that hurts more.

spidey99
Post subject: Blame it on the coaches Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 07:39 PM




Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Posts: 53

Status: Offline
We've all seen this before in the Khari Jones years. The Blue Bomber bus had the makings of a Grey Cup champion, but just couldn't make it to the top of the mountain.

History repeats itself in more ways than one. After an arm (& heart)breaking playoff season, the supposed-to-be Grey Cup Champions begin to self-destruct. Listening to Berry gripe about the enthusiasm of some of his players in public, poisoning the locker room atmosphere, players not having faith in their coaches, etc. reminded me of the end of the Dave Richie saga.

Just as we finally said bye-bye to Dave Ritchie, we'll soon be saying goodbye to Doug Berry and crew at the end of the season, if not sooner. We might as well take that snarly old buzzard Lyle Bauer behind the barn with the coaches and make a fresh start when new management takes over. Taman will be a good GM.

We know the Bombers will get punked next week against the Lions and will probably lose to the Stamps, making us 0-6. Dare I say, "Remember the Reinbold years?"

There's more talent here than in the Reinbold era, but it's obvious that the Dave Berry version of the Bombers peaked last year and is likely the worst team in the CFL. Full credit has to go to the Tabbies, Argos (ew), Riders, Esks, and Als who have upgraded their rosters this year while we bent over backwards to stay intact, believing we were good enough to make it to the top of the mountain.

I feel bad for Milt, but his individual accolades and a spot in the Hall of Fame will have to be enough. For the rest of us, it's time to take out the paper bags and join the hall of shame. At least the beer I bring from home is cold.